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Thread: An extreme claim: Jesus never existed.

  1. #16
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    If we disagree with the existance of Jesus did we also disagree with the existence of the following people ?


    Ceasar
    Kleopatra
    Nero
    Johannes der Täufer
    Herodes
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...

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    Re: Jesus never existed.....but He does, even today.

    There is an atheist and satanic movement which has entered the doors of many religious teachings and text. This is to take people away from God, and move toward a more Satanic mode of thinking.
    Jesus does exist, as a middle aged man. He can travel without equipment....heck, some of us can, too. When I RVed, I traveled many places, on and off world. I have also gone back in time. I have also...jumped into different places spontaneously, both seen and unseen by others. Some call that astral travel or bilocation.
    The science of virginal birth could have to do with a dimensional factor. If one understands the science of dimensions, one can have a better idea that this could have happened.
    Jesus did heal, and use some of His abilities, such as mastery of the elements, to walk on water. He also raised the dead, which are really not dead at all because we never die. We just step outside of our bodies, looking just like ourselves when we pass, and this is how we all recognize each other in heaven, and when we visit with others on Earth. Jesus said My kingdom is not of this world....no, He was from someplace far away, and even though he was in an Earthly body, His Spirit was Advanced in many ways. He could think someplace and just be there..spontaneous astral travel or bilocation. He could heal the body of Lazereus, so that his flesh was no longer turning when Jesus told him to ...Rise Up.
    Jesus taught us to pray....Our Father, who art in Heaven.....(Our Father, God)...His Father, too, as He called out to on the cross.
    My post is but an answer to another false attack against Jesus. There is something else. I have seen Jesus. He does exist, and He does have the powers and abilities I spoke of and many more. There is an outer space connection, and that may help one understand more, the things that I have written. Have Faith....

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    Quote Originally posted by scibuster View Post
    If we disagree with the existance of Jesus did we also disagree with the existence of the following people ?

    Ceasar
    Kleopatra
    Nero
    Johannes der Täufer
    Herodes
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    If you had myths from a plethora of other ancient cultures that exactly mirrored the major points of these peoples' lives then I would definitely have to think twice about their historicity. Sometimes there is also a real figure but that person's history becomes totally convoluted or painted over with a fictional account for political or religious reasons. This is actually fairly commonplace and there are lots of "historical" figures who most scholars readily admit were greatly embellished or mythologized by common people after the fact.

    One thing that many people don't appreciate today is that during the Middle Ages, most people in Europe were illiterate, and the texts from ancient Greece and Rome were rotting away, being burned or otherwise being lost. The only major class of people who could read and write in Medieval Europe were... Catholic clergy. As they transcribed the ancient documents, they admit to "correcting" them.

    You mention Caesar so we can take him as another example. Today we have the book Commentarii de Bello Gallico or Commentaries on the Gallic War, attributed to Caesar, somewhere around 50 BC or so. No text anywhere near that old actually survives. The only "primary sources" that do survive are medieval, transcribed by Catholic clergy. So even the texts of Caesar that we read today have been filtered through the lens of Medieval Europe, and more specifically the Catholic Church. The same Catholic Church, remember, that was torturing, burning and generally killing millions of people in the names of God and Jesus.

    If there was anything in these texts that went against their doctrine, do you think they would just copy it as they found it, even while they're killing people for going against their doctrine? It would not make sense to kill people for having heretical views of Jesus (such as the Cathars), but then copy old text and republish it that says the same things. And again they admit themselves that they had to "correct" many of these texts.

    Lots of people are skeptical of events like the JFK assassination or 9/11 today, for good reason. But when textbooks are written, the official stories are still going into them. You'd be lucky to find a textbook at a major university that even suggests there are any credible reasons to doubt these official stories. So these are the times we live in today. If anyone thinks things were more transparent at a time when most people couldn't even read or write, there was no Internet or radio or television, and the authorities would kill you for expressing views they didn't like, then I would suggest that these things be considered more carefully and realistically.
    Last edited by bsbray, 29th November 2015 at 01:12. Reason: typo

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    10/10 bsbray!

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    Quote Originally posted by scibuster View Post
    If we disagree with the existance of Jesus did we also disagree with the existence of the following people ?


    Ceasar
    Kleopatra
    Nero
    Johannes der Täufer
    Herodes
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    As far as I know, none of those legendary people in the above quoted list were used by an organized group of human ancestors to psychologically pacify their masses, to use "suggestion" that the masses can toil their whole lives for the "kings" in this life and will reap their rewards in the afterlife while the evil ones go to an eternal hell. None of them are reported to have told the masses they are poor sinners, born in sin and that a loving "god" (their "god") thought the best solution was to "incarnate" (as "his" son) whereupon a viscious set of groups would torture and kill "this son" so that we could be forgiven of the supposed "sins" we all commit.

    Seriously - is there still a single "thinking being" who has not figured out how ludicrous this is? Sadly the answer is yes.

    What a lovely "god" that "only begotten son" is from and what a lovely "binding" (note the word religion comes from a word which meant "to bind") the masses so willingly accept.

    Lovely "god/man" who a group used to justify such lovely campaigns as "the inquisition."

    Lovely "god" that "god/man" represents that sits back while "his son" is used to justify these actions against many of our ancestors.

    Orwell said "control the past and you control the future." Looks like he's right.
    Last edited by Chester, 29th November 2015 at 15:43.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGD...vgBsCHmlC13jOg

    https://www.facebook.com/samhunter57

    http://merlynagain.blogspot.com/

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    During healing work I have felt the Christ energy many times and always equated it to Christing not Jesus, until I worked with a desparate lady who was told she would soon be dead ( cancer ), she was of a religion that did not allow blood transfusions etc etc, A dear trusted friend of hers talked her out of her belief system and she came with her to meet me, 3 hours of talking about what the process would include ( no crystals, reiki, blessings, Nothing but Christ would she allow to be part of the proceedings ), I was allowed to put my hands on her head and her feet, only ), her friend sat beside table, I ask her to give intent for jesus and thanks, emmediately Jesus was there, for about twenty minutes, two ladies saw jesus ( other lady was a sceptic beforehand ), I felt and knew it was jesus or jesus energy as such, so I am able to distinguish between the two for myself, christing and jesus energy, so I believe jesus lived at one time, then some years afterward I read the nine faces of Christ and believe there to have been a few jesus's back in time.

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    I have family members who are devout Christians. I doubt we could ever have any kind of "debate" over the existence of Jesus. Nothing happens without his grace and intervention. I don't think there's anything on this earth that could change their faith. If the 'Annunaki' showed up with 'proof' they started the Jesus myth these people would still have faith.

    They are loving, good people and would never become fanatical and kill over their beliefs. I'm pretty sure they would never turn their back on a family member who was atheist or married into a different religion.

    This is not the same with my orthodox Jewish friends. Some will disown children who stray. As if they died.

    Is this faith in Jesus a 'savior complex'? For them it's the foundation of their reality.

    I believe I have responsibility for my own soul. To them, that's an impossibility. Only Jesus can save it. There's no room for debate. Most likely they pray for our souls' salvation.

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    so why is there so much energy put towards proving
    one is wrong and one is right? is this something else
    that is stealing our attention? we all have our own
    path to follow and of course our own views conflict
    with another ones views. who is it that would want
    anyone to think as it is being presented here? some
    guy with this phd BS writes a book and has a motor
    mouth and talks like everyone knows what he is talking
    about, to make his argument the right one. nothing but
    a two bit con in action. so, he may say something that
    chimes with how "you" feel/think. there is something
    to take you, away from you, for everyone! its a short
    fix.
    this is a lazy mans escape, to feel empowered, to let
    another talk, for ones self.
    the guy doesnt know one way or another. books he read?
    we all know books are written by other men/women that
    would fit the same schema. any book written is edited.
    what does edited mean? take out, rearrange, change words,
    ect... he puts out weak phrases that only attacks
    minds that are already in the "its not possible" arena.
    is it possible for one to have photographic memory?
    is it possible for one to have telekinesis?
    is it possible for one to have superhuman strength?
    is it possible for one to have telepathy?
    is it possible for one to be psychic?
    so, is anything impossible?
    no, nothing is impossible!
    do i beLIEve in jesus? no..
    i know jesus to be true.
    this is not the bible beLIEf of jesus..
    it (the bible) has been stomped on for a long time and
    changed or edited to fit another ones needs/wants.
    he places all his arguments on someone else to prove his
    right. he is a dis ease trying to spread.
    We have so much more the be than what we currently are.

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    @Sam, I'll attempt to address your questions here...

    Sam said:

    Out of all the human beings we have on Earth, how many have "beings from beyond" participating in their waking state, conscious reality? A very tiny percentage. Why are those beings not involved in everyone's reality experience? Is one possible answer that the human beings who do not recognize other worldly beings participating in their life don't do so because they are unopen to the possibility? That they do not allow their perception to "see" (or "hear") such beings?

    So I have to ask, wouldn't these beings know this? And so then, if they do... can they not see how this may very well cause more harm than good?

    Why can't Earth humans be allowed to resolve their own matters? Does intervening in the lives of the few who can "see/hear" them who then go and tell others amongst humanity of their experiences actually create further division in humanity? And for those who only share their other worldly experiences with those who are open, does this not create a divide as well?

    All of these things seem, to me, to actually emulate the actions of the beings the Gnostics warned us about.


    Okay, first question, which you answered, and I will respond to differently:

    Out of all the human beings we have on Earth, how many have "beings from beyond" participating in their waking state, conscious reality? A very tiny percentage.

    If you're going to speak for all of humanity in that tiny percentage, then you need to take into account cultures other than Western ones, such as the many indigenous cultures (but not limited to them) who have had - and some members still have - connection with 'beings from beyond' in their waking, conscious reality, which could include ETs, nature spirits and elementals, ancestor spirits and deceased family members, angelic and creator beings and so on.
    For instance, if you saw the opening post on the Ley Lines thread, the stone in the centre of the first sacred circle I stated as coming from an Aboriginal sacred site in the Kimberley region of Western Australia, one of seven sacred sites in that area which in the Dreaming mythology of the tribes here, was directly connected to the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades and creator beings they called the wandjina who came from that constellation (which can be seen depicted in cave paintings in the Kimberley). The stone came from an Aboriginal elder from that area whose tribe are custodians of the sites and the ley line that runs down here, also under my current property. While much Aboriginal culture has been decimated, as all around the world where Europeans colonized, there are still those who remember, and hold the 'songlines' intact, and I know from them that they do indeed see, hear and tangibly sense the presence of other-dimensional souls, spirits and beings....and I did have a very powerful experience with an elder of the Nyoongar tribe here in Perth years ago, where we connected in a dream while asleep, and he carried within his energy the souls of 200 of his tribe...for they do not have the sense of separation that Western individualism does...and those who have not succumbed to the 'shutdown' of their inner cultural reality can and do see star people easily. So you may want to reconsider the underlying assumptions of that 'tiny percentage'....

    Consider also that for people who are walking/living in a deeply connective experience across dimensions, or across the 'Veil', there is no such thing as 'beyond'. It all IS. Realities are very fluid in that state, interwoven and always interconnected.

    Why are those beings not involved in everyone's reality experience? Is one possible answer that the human beings who do not recognize other worldly beings participating in their life don't do so because they are unopen to the possibility? That they do not allow their perception to "see" (or "hear") such beings?

    They are involved in everyone's reality experience, but most people's conscious awareness blocks that knowing.

    For instance, the first ship sighting I had four years ago was with a neighbour who happened to be devoutly Catholic. We watched the ships together and spoke about them. Ten minutes later when I referred to them again, she had no conscious memory at all of having seen them. They simply did not fit into the world-view she was mentally and emotionally attached to, and therefore was quickly erased so as not to disrupt that world-view....which it would have done, bigtime!

    Similarly, when people do see other-dimensional beings, they will tend to project onto them their expectation, which may be personal or culturally conditioned, or both. I view the soul that incarnated as 'Jesus' as a star being, and when we've been in communication, I do tend to 'see' him (though not always) in that form, which while not being religious, I still grew up with in this culture. Someone connecting with that same soul who came from a culture without a Jesus-focus could see that same soul by a different form, maybe a different soul aspect that was more resonant to their 'way of seeing'. But those forms would still have the same 'soul print', the same Essence.

    So I have to ask, wouldn't these beings know this? And so then, if they do... can they not see how this may very well cause more harm than good?

    Yes, they are well aware that as long as Earth humanity's attachment to the Veil's illusion of separation and their ego's survival stories (fear of annihilation) are focussed into identification with those illusions, then they will not see/hear/feel past it, and if they do it will be accompanied by all the distortions of those projections. That doesn't mean it's not worth attempting to reach them - which has at times included stepping into 3D physicality - with mixed results at best, which is one of the reasons higher dimensional don't do it more often, and some not at all.

    Why can't Earth humans be allowed to resolve their own matters? Does intervening in the lives of the few who can "see/hear" them who then go and tell others amongst humanity of their experiences actually create further division in humanity? And for those who only share their other worldly experiences with those who are open, does this not create a divide as well?

    Again, this comes from a view of 'us' and 'them' that is bound up with attachment to the illusion of separation. From my perspective, WE - Earth humans, star beings, Inner Earth people, Gaia and indeed Source, by whatever name, are resolving our own matters together...because those 'matters' concern us ALL, and are interwoven and interconnected between us all...and as a star being currently incarnate as an Earth human who has a strong love for Gaia and all life travelling with this planet, to divide my experience and perception into 'us' and 'them' has no meaning, and would be counterproductive.

    As to sharing such experiences, I just read these words:

    Your value to those around you hinges upon only one thing: your personal alignment with Source. And the only thing you have to give to another is an example of that alignment—which they may observe, then desire, and then work to achieve—but you cannot give it to them. Everyone is responsible for the thoughts they think and the things that they choose as their objects of attention. (Abraham-Hicks)

    Pretty much sums it up. Regarding those who seem to share their otherworldly (of course, I would say, this-worldly-in-multidimensions) experiences with others who are open, and that causing even more division, that is your perception. All I would say here is that those who really do live in this state of connectedness feel an inexpressible love for everyone and all life, and are doing all they can in their unique and various ways to share that connectedness, without force or coercion, because they know the sacred flow of life....

    All of these things seem, to me, to actually emulate the actions of the beings the Gnostics warned us about.

    The Gnostics' vision has twists and distortions in it, just like every other religion/mythology/doctrine on Earth. If that is how all these things seem to you, then that is your choice. If you believe Jesus and/or other star people of high love are emulating the actions of such beings - archons, presumably - then from my point of view you're seeing him only through the way the religion that grew up using his name presented him for the benefit of those who sought power, and not allowing or imagining any other possibility as to who and what that being is...so if you did encounter his presence 'unveiled', what mental blocks would you have in the way, what conditionality?

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    Last edited by Myst, 16th March 2017 at 07:19.

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    Greenbarry, I like your comment. People are too often focused on proof when it's not available or even necessary. Listening to Art Bell's show with Scott Lemriel, it was fine until the end when a caller asked him to prove his claims. The rest of the show was just a clamoring for proof.

    What Scott had to offer was a way to have a personal experience to see for oneself. They couldn't even let him fully explain it. It involved chanting HU. They wouldn't discuss it enough to even critique the method or its results.

    Joanna just mentioned HU in the context of the name ahura in the ley lines thread. The last portion of the Art's show was useless because there was no real discussion or debate.

    Similar dynamics occur when discussing Jesus.

    The basic problem I have with many Christians is that they want to talk about the proof they have, scripture, yet at the same time demand faith when that 'proof' fails. Their personal experience is real and true, thus proof, yet they can judge another's experience as wrong. An experience they haven't had.

    The bottom line is responsibility. We're responsible for what we do, say and think, for who we are.

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    That was a beautiful post, Myst. Only 14 posts here? You should stop by more often.

    I try to come at things from a very grounded perspective but math and science aren't always as "grounded" as most people imagine, which ties into Godel's work, as you mentioned. I like it when people really think about the limitations of the tools we use for making sense of reality.
    Last edited by bsbray, 1st December 2015 at 16:41. Reason: typo

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    Senior Member United States Chester's Avatar
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    Hi, I played the role of "contrarian" and have done pretty good at it.

    I base this opinion on the appearance of so many excellent responses.

    and wow... I just noticed the post number - #28

    28 is the second perfect number.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_number

    Why I feel this "coincidence" is interesting is the "jesus" was "perfect" and that "he" is supposed to "return for a second time."
    Last edited by Chester, 1st December 2015 at 16:39.
    All the above is all and only my opinion. It may contain some sharing of components of my current operating strategy and some foundational components of my current world view - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

    It's just a ride

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGD...vgBsCHmlC13jOg

    https://www.facebook.com/samhunter57

    http://merlynagain.blogspot.com/

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    Perfect ?, for his times maybe, imo many have done more and presently able to do more in our times, as Jesus apparently said.

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